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Sunday, November 20, 2016

White Nationalism Will Kill the Alt-Right

Checking in.  I'm supposed to be on a hiatus this month.  However, I was responding to John Collinson in the comment box, and my response is big enough that it merits a post.

Vox Day has lately been much more vocal about his support for white nationalism.  And so, we have another rare moment in life when I disagree with the man.  I am not fully on board with him about the race issue.  When it comes to race, I'd say I agree with Vox about eighty percent.  Maybe a little less.

Allow me to first feature John's comments:
Englishman here. I'm glad that Trump won.
Laramie, I know that you are involved in the Alt-Right movement to some degree. I saw you posting on Vox Day's blog telling him that he ought to be a Catholic, or that he would make a good Catholic. Maybe one day, but he's far from it at the moment. In reaction to another one of his anti-"churchian" posts (I think he makes at least one a week), I told him that not all those in a church are liars or false prophets, and I quoted scripture and the fathers on the necessity of belonging to the Church: he reacted harshly, deleting the posts and telling me to go away. The reason I bring this up is that, from the very beginning, I've noticed that for every sincere Christian on the Alt-Right, there must be at least five pagans or false Christians (e.g. Vox is not a Christian, at least not yet). Some of the pagans are extreme anti-Christians, who speak blasphemies that outdo the Left's blasphemies in their hideousness. I think that it's highly probable that this Alt-Right movement will end up as a pagan, neo-Fascist movement that only attracts Catholics because of a shared hatred for modern Leftism. A lot of the people on the Alt-Right are bored nihilists who want to destroy the current order of society for the sake of it, or at least that's how it seems with most of the kek-posters. That said, I think that your trust or hope in this movement is misguided. I know it fills a big gaping hole in our souls - the lack of a real, Catholic political movement - but it's a false solution, one that isn't truly Catholic and probably never will be.
In fact, Alt-Right is a bit like the old Action Francaise, which the Holy See eventually shut down because they were more right-wing than they were Catholic, and the top people in that party only saw the Church as a part of "French culture", at best. It's the same with the Alt-Right. Many of them will tolerate Christianity as a part of "western culture"; although some of it see it as a Jewish lie and won't tolerate it. 

Hi, John Collinson.

Yes, I agree with a lot of what you've said.  Vox Day likes to argue that the Alt-Right is not a reaction.  Yet, it is.  I've loved being a part of it, but it IS a reaction.  And it has been a very useful reaction to the Leftism that's dominated our culture, up to the Trump victory.  But now that Trump has won, the Alt-Right is relaxing a bit and wondering what to do with itself.

No longer under siege, the Alt-Right has some wiggle room.  It can relax a bit and enjoy a little cultural dominance for a change.  And so, what's happening? The movement is largely appearing to lean white nationalist.  White nationalism has become the end in and of itself for the Alt-Right.  The entire movement--which has no leaders--is swaying into this direction, I'm afraid.

Bottom line: MultiKult, the Diversity Dictatorship, and the reverse racism that is permissible for "everyone but the white bigots" --it all needs to be fought against.  Surely.  I don't mind having white groups, voluntary segregation, white pride and whatnot.  Every other ethnicity does.  But becoming like the Left--failing to realize that a nation's homogeneity is NOT an end unto itself--becoming like that will be the downfall of the Alt-Right.

Vox Day is very smart, and he's inspired me for fifteen years.  I quote him often.  But he fails to get a grip on the Church that was instituted by Christ.  He misses the forest from the trees, I'm afraid.  Fighting the vicious culture war against the South-African-styled racism against whites, while still maintaining a respect for Christ and the Universalism that results from that pursuit--it is a fine balancing act that apparently Vox Day is incapable of.  In fact, I am starting to believe it's a balancing act that 99% of the populace is incapable of, no matter how high your Mensa IQ is.  Tempering your character to be humble enough to consider the Logos is a difficult path--and probably why God recommends we pursue simplicity.

Vox is a man with traces of American Indian and Mexican blood, who is an expatriate, who has turned around to face the United States and tell us that white nationalism is the answer for "we the people" who are still on this side of the Atlantic.  Meanwhile, there in Italy, surrounded by a culture that was shaped for generations by the Church, he still refuses to even examine Her.  He is blind to Her universalism.  He says he's never seriously considered Catholicism, that he would never convert under this pope, and even once said: "I don't give a single flying fuck for all your 'I belong to the One True Church' bullshit. Whether you do or not, I don't care."

So, there you have it.  A shame, but there it is.  He's still dependable when it comes to the facts on the ground.  I refuse to disown him.  He is a comrade.  He is one of our generals.  He is on our side.  He leads the charge very often.  And there is always, yet, room for him to change his mind.

However, by failing to realize that the Church is the only means to the only End, he will ultimately fail in the long game.  The Alt-Right will eventually be called out for its misconceptions--misconceptions that Vox is currently feeding in to.  And it sucks, because the Left will be morally justified when they use that card.  I hate giving the Left ammunition.  The last thing I want for them to have is to justifiably, yet disingenuinely call us out for some issue.  But white nationalism is not an option.  Fighting multiculturalism and diversity propaganda is a fine thing.  But the white nationalists are going to lose this for us.

We will never return to the days when Noah's three sons stepped off the Ark and populated the Earth with the different tribes in their particular locations.  We will never return to the days when men were freshly banished from the Tower of Babel, and settled in their particular zones with their partiucular languages.  God knew that men would come together and mix up once again.  God knew that technology would come along.  And, as the Chastisement for this world is closer than ever before, it is fallacy to think that we can return the world's civiliztions to some sort of ancient primeval version of itself.  This kind of short-sighted fallacy, ultimately, is a kind of distrust in God.


  1. Thanks for the reply, Laramie.

    Did you see the latest Star Wars film, "The Force Awakens"?

    This film is actually quite culturally aware. On one side you have the multicultural republic (with a feminist heroine, a black hero, and a Jewish hero), and on the other side, you have the pure white, neo-Nazi empire. The most interesting character is on the empire's side: Kylo Ren, a young, disturbed, white man who despises his degenerate, divorced parents (Han Solo and Leia), and wants to return to the glorious days of his grandfather's (Darth Vader) empire. Basically, Kylo Ren represents every young white man growing up today who feels that the multicultural society has disowned him, and wants to return to days of his grandfather when the white man was on top.

    The most interesting scene in the film is when Kylo Ren is more or less praying to Darth Vader to help him overcome his temptations. Very religious undertones.

    When I first watched this film I thought the Jewish/leftist director was being hysterical in portraying white nationalism as a threat to the dominant multicultural republic. But now I realise that their constant paranoia of a white uprising/reaction is not all that irrational. They were running Germany into the ground until Hitler showed up.

    White nationalism is a very modern movement. The white nationalists themselves like to identify themselves with their ancient ancestors (the Nazis themselves did this), but our ancestors were never white nationalists. White nationalism, I think, is grounded in a Darwinian view of the world, which is a materialist world of survival of the fittest. For these people, religion can only be a useful tool for making a society stronger. They absolutely do not see God as a real Judge that they must all answer to, and look to for guidance and the foundation of law.

    That said, these Alt-Right reactionaries are not going back to a pre-modern view, but just reverting back to the modern right-wing. The principle that distinguishes modern politics from traditional, pre-modern politics is that in modern politics The People is sovereign. "The People has spoken", replaces, "God has spoken"; "the Will of The People", replaces, "the Will of God". Now, there are differing views on how the Will of The People should be implemented. There is the liberal view that it should be done in a decentralised manner, by popular vote / plebiscite. Then there is the totalitarian view that there should be a Napoleonic, dictatorial figure who represents the Will of The People. But they both fundamentally agree that all law, all truth, all morality proceeds out of The People. Both the mad dictator Adolf Hitler, and the toff politicians in the UK parliament, both agree that The People (or Das Volk) is sovereign. Say that you want to enact legislation in accordance with the Will of God and you will be laughed back to the middle ages; say that you want to enact legislation in accordance with the Will of The People and you will at least be treated as one speaking sensibly.

    Totalitarianism is the "dark side" of modern populist politics. As soon as you put The People as the sovereign, you always open the possibility of a tyrant - capable of any atrocity - who claims to embody "Will of The People". The French Revolutionaries discovered this for themselves, when not long after they had sentenced the king and the royalists to the guillotine, they themselves were turned on for not being revolutionary enough, and were executed by The People.

    1. Please check your linquistic history. The word Barbarian ment anyone not Greek (or was it Roman). The word Gentile means anyone not Jewish.

      My point - a racial/cultural/nationalist (nation= a people/culture/genetic group) was acknowledged in the past, and all groups considered theirs the best. The only reason the Ancient Germans, Celts, Swedes, etc didn't have any form of recorded 'white nationalism' is because they didn't have writing.

  2. This is why the leftist's paranoia and comparing Trump to Hitler is not that stupid or innacurate. No, I don't think Trump is that comparable to Hitler, but he is certainly in that direction, of a cult of personality figure who claims to speak on behalf of The People. The only difference between Leftists and Alt-Right is that Leftists see "The People" as representing all of humanity, regardless of race, religion, etc., whereas the Alt-Right sees "The People" as representing white people, at least in historically white countries. But they both agree in the sovereignty of The People and the relegation of God and religion to a private hobby. In fact, you can almost admire the Leftists version of Populism, because if you are going to be a Populist like that, you may as well be a universalist, humanitarian one, rather than a tribal one. This is why the Left's claim to a kind of intellectual and cultural superiority to the modern right-wing is not that unfounded: they both cling to the same principle of popular sovereignty, it's just that Leftists apply it more universally and consistently, which is why they are the open-minded progressives and the Rightists are the narrow-minded reactionaries. Vox Day's view of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights is that they do not represent the Rights of Man, but the Rights of The White Man. He might be right in a [i]de facto[/i] sense, but I believe the founding fathers had a more philosophical and universal position than that.

    Neither our pagan nor our Christian ancestors saw The People as the highest authority (except in a few very short-lived democracies in ancient Greece). They all appealed to God or the gods as the highest authority. This is what separates us from them. It's this Humanist, Populist turn in politics (and philosophy and everything else). The New World Order is basically the Humanist parallel of the Catholic Church, a Kingdom of Man rather than the Kingdom of God. This is why I recently thought that modern Leftists might be easier to convert than the Alt-Right, if only you could cure them of their moral (mostly sexual) perversions. They have a universalist and humanitarian view that could easily be changed into Christianity if you could just make them see that God is our God and not Man. I think that the Second Vatican Council was largely the Church trying to make a compromise with this modern Humanism, and speak to people in a Humanist way (so far it's failed and only managed to water-down our religion, but I still hope that it could bear fruit once its most radical tendencies have been purged). The Alt-Right, on the other hand, clings to a tribal mentality that resists any Catholic/Universalist movement that would in any way dissolve distinctions between men of different tribes.

  3. The reason that the Conservatives despise the Alt-Right and think of them as embodying the right-wing version of Identity Politics, is that Conservatives are still trying to cling on to at least some pre-Modern view concerning law and society; like that there is a natural law prior to civil law. But the Alt-Right hates the Conservatives for refusing to step up to the plate and fully embrace the Modern world and all that it entails, which means away with philosophical principles based on natural law or whatever, and in with the sovereign Will of The People. It's true that Conservatives are completely pathetic and useless, but that's because they have no real alternative to The People - they absolutely refuse to stand up for the rights of God, or even the rights of kings, (or the purity of the Constitution in the US), because these are too embarrassingly pre-Modern and they don't want to make a fool of themselves. So while the Leftists push through another abomination in the name of The People, respectable Conservatives are left to babble about the decline of culture or civilisation or good manners or whatever; what ought to be being said is: you are godless men defying God, and you are swiftly bringing the wrath of God down on yourselves. But this is embarrassing.

    The turning away from God and towards Man was brewing in Europe for centuries, before it really broke out with the French Revolution. You can see it in the Renaissance Humanists who were more interested in the beauty of antique civilisation than in the mission of the Church; you can see it in Martin Luther proclaiming his individual conscience to be higher than the authority of the Catholic Church.

  4. He [Richard Spencer] railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the “children of the sun,” a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were “awakening to their own identity.”

    As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, “Heil the people! Heil victory,” the room shouted it back.


    See, it's Das Volk again. They're not praying to Our Lord or Our Lady in these Alt-Right conferences, they are praying to, or for, Das Volk. This is why I think it's wrong to see them as spiritual allies in any sense. They are just as spiritually alien to Catholicism as the Leftists are, even if they happen to agree that pornography and extra-marital sex is degenerate.

  5. The 'alt-west' portion of the alt-right is more of 'separate and left alone' and not a 'we are better and will kill you all.' That said, it is close, and absent a strong Christian faith, it is likely in the future to lead to that. All cultures everywhere else have.

    VD like to quote the founder of Singapore who said something like "people in a multicultural area will not vote for economic or social concerns over racial or religious ones".

    He then goes all racial. I think that a passionate religious (or life philosophies including Marxism and Stoicism) belief is voted for over race. But that is just my thought on that.

    PS Still deciding about your blog. but Chriso Rey! and when the 25th arrives consider a Merry Christmas (Many of my Catholic friends do not like the MC before the 25th feeling that Advent is been sped through. )