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Friday, July 24, 2015

Neither Fish Nor Fowl, Part 3 of 4

So, I've never been one to cast stones too quickly.  Often in life, I've accepted people along with both their good qualities as well as their bad qualities.  Such has been the case with my association with Tracy, moderator of the Fisheaters.

Tracy isn't all bad.  The content of her website outside of the forum is of good quality.  I've heard praise of her site, ranging from Charles Coulombe all the way to sedevacantists.

Myself, I particularly enjoyed the different articles she would post.  Two of my recent favorites include Pat Buchanan: The GOP's Iran Dilemma, and Why Men Won't Get Married Anymore.  The latter thread would have been a very interesting conversation to have, as I'm often reading conversations and articles about modern marriage, game theory, and the manosphere.  And it isn't too often that you come across a Pat Buchanan fan.

One person recently admitted his good fortune to have found Fisheaters:
If it hadn't been for your site Vox, my faith would have been in serious jeopardy.
I will admit, I might be able to say something similar.  Seven years ago, I didn't know anything better beyond my Novus Ordo Catholicism.  I knew that there was something wrong with the Church.  However, I was completely ignorant to the facts.  Before the eventual disintegration of the forum, Fisheaters was a remarkable resource for a progressing Catholic such as myself.  It was like getting a shot of B12 vitamins.  Before, I never even knew what a healthy traditional Catholic resembled.  I was accustomed to the modernist Catholic culture that struggles to emulate the Protestants.

I must give this credit where credit is due.  A lot of us used to be at Fisheaters.  It was the place I started at.  I never got acquainted with any real-life friends, but I was introduced to the online Catholic community because of Fisheaters.  Because of Tracy.

Unfortunately, I am considered a "laddish," assholish, gung-ho, kooky Toxic Trad.  However, I would like to remind her of one plain fact stated this month on her own forum by a different poster:
Never forget it wasn't the "Toxic Trads" that destroyed the missionary work of the church, it wasn't them that promoted heretics. it wasn't them that molested teenage boys.
Indeed, I and others like me have not caused this problem in the Church.  If anything, we've all been trying to figure out the problems and fix them in the best way we know how.  

As it was with the last post, I am responding to some material from the following threads on Fisheaters:

What Happened to the Take Back the Net Subforum
Whatever Happened to the Not-So-Toxic Trads
and, What's Up With That Hate Towards the Fisheaters?

Now, this month Tracy responded to the opinions of those outside of Fisheaters.  And she makes a hypocritical statement about others' observations of her actions:
I've heard some super-crazy things said about me. It is kind of hard to believe, really. It's either that people truly are not that bright and cannot parse what is in front of them, or they are just hateful. Or both. Makes no sense. (this is where a toxic type would say, "See? Disagree with Vox and she thinks you're just stupid!", as if they have no understanding of the difference between disagreeing with someone, and mischaracterizing what someone says to the point that you're saying the exact opposite of what was actually said)

I, the toxic type, do not think you regard everyone you disagree with as stupid.  I am unaware that I have made that accusation at all.  And, I will even accept that this statement is not directed towards me in particular.  In fact, other people who are vehemently opposed to your stances freely admit that you are highly intelligent.  So, I do not know where that particular charge comes from.

But you ponder that these people cannot understand the difference between a disagreement and a mischaracterization?  In my particular case, I have been the one who has marked your recent action against me as a disagreement--which you've gone overboard on.  You, on the other hand, are the one who labels people as Toxic Trads.  And you are the one who mischaracterizes my objectives in "Taking Back the Net."

You banned me because you thought I was a zealot who wanted to hurl insults at people in a fit of proselytism that would go nowhere.  You assumed wrong.  In "Taking Back the Net," you talked past me the entire time this summer.  You were the one who missed what I actually said.  

You argued for evangelizing people in internet comment boxes.
I argued for an aggressive conquest of internet comment boxes.

Neither of these objectives are the same.  We could have come to a mutual agreement about this fact, and it is likely we could have ended the conversation in a more civil manner if you had the patience.

As everyone was fooling themselves this month about how "free" they are to talk about whatever they want on the Fisheaters forum, you boasted:
I want this place to be a place where people can get "real" about things. Like sex, for ex.

You will happily let people ramble on about sex.  Because "it's real."  But you will not let people mention war--and their part in it.  Namely, the culture war that we are all a part of, whether we like it or not.

Perhaps Gandhi can break through to you and others about the necessity for aggressive activism:

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.  -Mahatma Gandhi
Passivism was just a tool in an overall strategy that Gandhi applied.  In reality, he had his own battles.  He was not a pacifist.  He wouldn't even condemn his own people when they took up arms against the British.  So much for everyone's favorite Hindu.  

Tracy despises the idea of shock troops. She despises the idea of winning. She despises the idea of being aggressive and impolite.

It is precisely this kind of attitude that has led to the Catholic capitulation in the West for generations. It was not always this way. Catholics used to have political power. We used to have a voice in the public square. Dissenters to Logos would have been run out of the town square at one time.

But all of that is gone now. And left with a fracturing remnant of Christendom--if it can be called that anymore--we find ourselves utterly alone and powerless. Hardly a thing is stopping the powers of Satan from diving in and subduing our very lives.

By all means, let's be kind, folks. We can win the world over with polite conversation! 


  1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  2. Steve, I really do not think that you even read this blog. Please stop posting your cut-and-paste spam Protestantism on my blog. Either talk to me with your own words, or not at all.

    That's two cut-and-paste Catholic-styled spam messages I owe you, now.