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Followers of this blog might be aware of recent events that led to me shutting down The Hirsch Files for a week . Well, it seems that my pla...

Wednesday, July 22, 2015

Neither Fish Nor Fowl, Part 2 of 4

Moderate: Okay, gentlemen... take 5 paces, then turn and shoot. SJW has won the coin toss and will shoot first. Understood?
Conservative: Yes.
SJW: Whatever.
Moderate: One...
SJW: turns and points pistol, hand trembling in terror
Moderate: looks at SJW scornfully Two...
SJW: CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE! shoots in Conservative's general direction... misses horribly
Conservative: What the deuce? Turns around. You bastard!
SJW: How dare you turn around! You're not a gentleman!
Moderate: Conservative! You must take three more paces before you may turn around!
Conservative: That coward shot at me after two!
Moderate: Do not lower yourself to his level! Death before dishonor!
Conservative: That doesn't mean what you think it does! aims at SJW
SJW: EEK! cowers
Moderate: How dare you! draws pistol on Conservative If you do not turn around this instant, I shall shoot you myself, you dishonorable cur!
Special thanks, again, to Bateful Higot and VD for this charming example of duplicity and betrayal.  

Greetings, friends.  Laramie Hirsch here.  Toxic Trad, one numbered among the Dread Ilk, and Vile Faceless Minion of the Evil Legion of Evil.  

Following my banishment from the Fisheaters Catholic Forum--a place, to which, yours truly may never return--several conversations have been generated that I would like to respond to.  Namely:


A conversation about this subject really ought to be discussed between the Fisheaters forum owner and myself, either on the forum in a thread for their community to observe, or privately through e-mail correspondence.  Unfortunately for all parties involved, I am locked out from their community, and Tracy no longer replies to my e-mails.  

This fact, I find, is ironic and humorous in a certain kind of a way.  It was just earlier this month that some untrue assumptions about the nature of the forum have been made by various members--many of whom are relatively new to the forum.  
  • "People speak freely here. That's too much for some to handle."
  • I just have to say, I'm really loving this thread. It's an honest and frank discussion that I am very much taking to heart. I needed to hear some of these things. 
  • "I joined FE primarily due to the fact that sane discussion is encouraged..."
To these points, I might correct them, and state that in some cases--no discussion at all is encouraged.  You may not speak freely, because your moderator cannot handle it.  Honest and frank discussion is only tolerated so far.  And as far as "sane discussion" is concerned, that just depends on what you consider sane.  Free, frank, and honest conversation is disallowed.

The "Take Back the Net" sub-forum was shut down, yours truly was swept away, and let's not forget that the following threads about sodomite marriage were also taken off of the forum after I was banned:

1. Article: Supreme Court Legalizes Gay Marriage
2. Concerning defining/redefining/undefining the word "marriage"
3. One reason we now have sodomitic "marriage"
4. Should the two "Catholic" justices who voted for gay marriage be excommunicated?
5. Field Work #3: CAF is afraid of being strong against sexual degeneracy

However, to be sure, some on the forum are pleased as porridge that "ne'er-do-well types" like myself (I guess) have been given the boot.  In discussing how a multitude of Fisheaters members left a couple of years ago and went to Suscipe Domine, Melkite jokingly nicknamed the latter as "Westboro Catholic," and he further boasted about how the nickname seemed fitting for them.  While I may disagree with Melkite--as I prefer "The Echo Chamber" as a more appropriate name--why split hairs?

DCMaccabees, on the other hand, shares a bit more about how he feels of "Toxic Trads," and he takes delight in the fact that such people are to never be heard from again:
..."toxic trads" should be banned hard, early, and often. Their toxicity continues to poison long after they're gone and it has a greatly magnified negative impact on real "on the ground" traditionalism

...If you've been a member or a lurker [of Fisheaters] for a while, you're sure to remember the gaggle of toxic trads.  They've since crawled under a number of different rocks across the 'net., where they spew and hiss their venom.
Again, for people such as Melkite, DCMaccabees, and all others on any forum who delight at getting members expunged from their communities: so much for forgiving seventy times seven.  For these people, if you are so unfortunate to get singled out as a "Toxic Trad," then you are to be the stranger left on the road.  You should be passed by, with no "good Samaritan" to stop and give you aid in this troubled world.  You are gone forever.  

I find this approach to be extremely hypocritical, considering that Fisheaters has a very old thread titled "Banned from CAF," in which members recount the horrible closed-minded methods CAF used to scrub away all "contrary" dialogue.

One fellow this month commented about the insane policing of threads by CAF moderators:
Also its usually the case that on forums were you've crossed the line, the content of your post is blanked out and a red warning tells you, and everyone else, that a particular rule had been crossed. On CAF they just delete it, redacted, as it doesn't exist. This creates a very unsafe atmosphere for debate. People stifle themselves.
The place is a hug box, and a prayer request place, or they talk about completely safe things.
Sorry, friend. Tracy is the same way. Same goes for The Echo Chamber.  Tracy, also deletes threads as if they don't exist.  Tracy, also, creates an unsafe atmosphere for debate.  That is why so many people left and one of the reasons she's created so many enemies.  Is CAF a hug box?  Then what is Fisheaters?  This is how Tracy talks to people who do not disagree with her:
...I really want to give you a hug right now
…All you can do is your best, sweetheart.
I find nothing wrong with being a nice lady.  But the multi-level irony here is too perfect.  This is the kind of kindness Tracy will show you if you are not at odds with her.  

I, myself, dislike all of this fighting among the Traditional Catholics.  I particularly dislike the labeling that Tracy is engaged in with her finger-pointing "Toxic Trad" routine.  This is the same game that CAF plays, but I don't think she realizes that she is also playing it.  

I whole-heartedly agree with this next person's statement on the whole affair:
Well, I feel so delightfully out of touch after reading these posts. I find it terribly distracting putting all these names on people and having so many tags associated with someone. Why? Why must there be this pigeon-holing putting everyone in this or that position. I apologize, but I ain't into that. I am, I suppose, just an old traditionalist Catholic.
Indeed.  Pigeon-holing people into irredeemable slots is very unCatholic.  I despise this kind of behavior on any forum.  Even my most despised opponent on these forums is not beyond change, and I am not above speaking to her one day when she might have repented from her manipulative nature.

Want more irony?  Listen to this chap ramble on about how safe on Fisheaters he thinks he is:
...all charity and integrity requires of us to be self-critical. That's why I prefer this forum to Catholic Answers. We're allowed to disagree, even at the risk of getting into arguments. Because then we can air the problems and deal with them.
Wrong, my friend.  You are not allowed to disagree on Fisheaters.  You are not allowed to disagree at the risk of getting into arguments.  Neither there, nor at The Echo Chamber.  You cannot air out your problems and deal with them.  Not at all.  As I stated last week, it seems that discussion forums are not for discussing. Discussion forums are for agreeing.

I do not take the Michael Voris/ChurchMilitantTV approach.  I do not cast away people.  Should I ever have a forum of my own, I will reserve a lower tier for even my non-Catholic enemies.  And anyone banned from any upper tiers will not be perma-banned.  Rather, they would have opportunities to redeem themselves, or bans would have expiration dates.  There is no point in banning anyone longer than six months to a year.  

I take the Michael Matt approach to the online Traditional Catholic world.  In fact, I told Matt as such just recently:
I'm an FSSP man, myself. I don't really endorse the SSPX. That being said, I am always struck by the charitable attempt by Michael Matt to bridge gaps between Traditional Catholic groups, and the uncharitable slander the SSPX receives from critics. While Michael Matt is doing what he can to find commonality among us torn and struggling conservative Catholics, forums like Catholic Answers Forums and bloggers like Mark Shea smugly shut down anyone who opposes them and ridicules those they see are too far to the right.
Matt (I believe) thanked me kindly, stating that, "We're weak and we're sinners, far from perfect, but to "unite the clans" against the haters of Christ is what gets us up out of bed in the morning."  

If we are to win in this culture war against godless people, then we have got to be able to get along with one another and reasonably talk things out.  Within our communities, we cannot abandon people just because we disagree with them.  In public secular places, I will contend that we should win the social spaces and shame evil voices out of the arena.  But in our own spheres of influence--in our own habitations--we should be correcting one another in fraternal charity, and we should be patient with one another.  If someone needs to be silenced for a time, do it for a time.  But permanently?  Seems like nothing but malice.  I have witnessed such malice take place time and again on forums.  I have not seen too many reasonable mediators, and our side continues to fracture into pieces.  

Another individual has stated that people are much different in reality than they are on the forums:
I have never met anyone I would describe as a "toxic trad" in real life. However, in real life you see a lot more of a person.
Tracy agreed with this sentiment, admitting about how she would like to meet different members in real life:
I've often had the wish that some of the people who loathe me and bash FE could meet with me IRL, over a bottle of Gewurtzraminner (sp) or whatever and spicy snacks and just t-a-l-k. I'd bet that our opinions of each other would soften to a great degree.
I couldn't agree with Tracy more.  It would definitely be a good time for us all to meet one day in person.  Heck, before Fisheaters split into different factions, I recall hearing about people doing actual meet-ups.  Everyone lived up in the Northeast, so there was no possibility of me rendezvousing with anyone, but it was a nice sentiment.

I was actually entertaining the idea of perhaps meeting the Fisheaters moderator up there in Indiana.  One day, I will be taking my family to our ancestral family cemetery in that state.  Wouldn't it have been interesting to be chilling out with Tracy and discussing the current "Gay mayor fiasco" going on in South Bend, Indiana, which E. Michael Jones has been railing about on the local access channel?  What would Tracy say about it if I were to speak to her in person?  

Alas, alliances are shattered frequently.  

Gonates expelled from Athens 


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