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Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Michael Voris Mentions "Lunatic" Pope Deniers

Michael Voris at the Vortex decided to throw The Hirsch Files a bone and speak out indirectly against the likes of the sedevacantist movement and others.

In this latest fantastic episode of The Vortex, Michael Voris begins blaming "the dearth of leadership in the Church" for the creation of two extremes: the obvious liberal column of revolutionaries that are trying to destroy Church traditions, and then the not-so-obvious conservative column of reactionaries who do not even think the current Catholic Church is real.

Voris sympathetically gives credit to these reactionaries—who typically cry out "heretic!" quite often in their postings—explaining that after the Second Vatican Council, that understandably "many faithful, simple Catholics could not deal with this psychologically and emotionally."  He further continues and says that these people took refuge in apparitions in private revelations, looking for "psychological comfort."

Voris goes on to say that "they were told by the Queen of Heaven, allegedly, that the explanation was that the pope or popes were heretics or imposters, that the real pope had been kidnapped, or other sorts of stories."  I've heard this sort of thing quite often in the last five years on the Internet.

These people, Voris states, claim that "what looks like the authentic Church is actually false," and that "because of the crisis of the Church, they and their allies are now the true repositories of the Church."  Yet, what these people have actually done is to "establish their own parallel church."

Voris concludes this part of the video by stating that a whole cottage industry has grown up in the Church, and then he polishes it off with this:

"Call this branch of the current crisis, 'the lunatics.'"

Thank you, very much, Michael Voris.  It's about time you at least acknowledge that these sorts of people exist.  I am sure that the lot of them will only hate you even more for calling them out for what is clear and obvious to most people who attend Mass.

Voris is correct when he blames this sort of thing on weak and blind Church leadership that is in denial.  I highly doubt that the current Church leadership will get off of its duff to confront this rot from the inside of the Catholic Church.  I wish that they would.  I wish a cardinal would come out and confront these true schismatics point by point once and for all.

Over at Fisheaters, I pushed for Vox to create or transform one of the forum folders into a section where Catholics could take a critical look at sedevacantism.  It was my hope that people with more knowledge, resources, and time could broach the subject of sedevacantism and examine different arguments one thread at a time.  Instead, it seems that the remaining Fisheaters who did not leave that forum have not taken up that fight, and for the most part at this point, sedes now openly post their schismatic hatred for Church authority.

Some confrontation with sedevacantism occurs over at the lively forum known as Cathinfo.  That forum is well run, and there has always been good conversation there thanks to Matthew, the forum owner.  However, the place has been becoming a haven for sedes in recent years.  At Cathinfo, yours truly has taken a part in announcing his objections to sedevacantism.  And we can all thank TCat—who now calls himself soulguard—for forcing me to come to a conclusion about this odious path away from Church authority.

Over at the Suscipe Domine forum, sedevacantism promotion is allowed, and others there flirt with the idea and slowly become inculcated into this movement away from the Catholic Church.

Catholic Answers Forum never allows any discussion of sedevacantism at all, though they will happily host web shows that bash Traditional Catholics.  So much for them.

Ann Barnhardt has occasionally mentioned sedevacantism in her podcasts, and she has stated what a horrible path it is to take.  But there has not really been a full podcast devoted to the topic.

Occasionally, on Audiosancto, one might find an anonymous priest mentioning the wrong of sedevacantism in a sermon, but that is rather rare.

So, as is plain, discussion about such schismatic breaks from the Church has been minimal and mostly between laity.  So I say thank God that Voris is giving at least a little lip service to this crisis within the Church among the Traditionalists.  With any hope, he will perhaps devote another episode to the matter at some point in coming months.


  1. Eventually the sedevacantist position, if this crisis in the church continues on for another 100 years, will be the only realistic position. Calling everyone lunatics that hold this position doesn't help the discussion.

  2. I agree that calling the fringe traditionals names does not help, but in all else Michael Voris is right in what he said.
    In case no one has noticed, they have gotten more strident and tightened up their ranks the past year or so. I don't think it will be long before the traditional "movement" has its own crisis as everything appears to be coming to a head within their ranks.
    They are also starting to sound dated and ever so boring. Absolutely coring. The same old stuff constantly repeated. Over and over and over. Gotten so you know what they will say before they say it.


  3. "Absolutely coring" should read "Absolutely boring", but maybe "coring" would be a good new word although I am not sure what it would mean.


  4. Hey Laramie-

    When are you going to address my question regarding a corrupt vs heretical pope which I asked you about on SD before Christmas? Still too busy?

    -Roland Deschain

  5. Hey Roland-

    Yup. Still too busy. Never said I was an apologist, Roland. I may get around to addressing your contention. Eventually.

    1. You throw napalm at fellow Catholics and then run. I used to think you just a coward, but now I question your good will. You fit the profile of a professional troll or agitator. Your posts on SD are beneath contempt.

      I say this as a non-SV, btw.

      -Roland Deschain

  6. Throw napalm and run? Why, my good Roland! I still participate on Suscipe Domine as well as Cathinfo. I have run nowhere.

    And besides, you asked no question in December. You merely made a statement.

    You ask me to reply to your statement, but why should I? Why would I want to respond to someone who calls me a coward and a troll with ill will, who "writes drivel," and throws "molotov cocktails." Why would I want to respond to someone who thinks "I'm in over my head?"

    Clearly you have the best most virtuous intentions--no ill will whatsoever--in telling me all these things of myself.

  7. I totally agree with you Laramie - It is both the sedevacantists and the modernists who are doing damage to the Church.

    When the Catholic faith becomes based solely of private revelation and legalisms which confuse and confound, it merely becomes a form of Protestantism where any person can read Papal encyclicals and church documents and determine apart from the Magisterium what the Church teaches.

    If a person were truly humble, they wouldn't fall into such errors.

    BTW, don't listen to the critics, I find your posts on SD to be spot-on and clear-headed.

    - Ruben

  8. Well, Ruben! It seems that I won't be listening to any critics at all today over at SD! I've been given a one-day ban to teach me a lesson for daring to call out Larry's snotty remark. No doubt, as I am unable to respond to anything whatsoever there for today, there shall be those who will take pleasure in piling on and kicking ol' Laramie while he's down.

    It is ironic, because along with this hand slap, I've been warned to "post constructively." I suppose Larry's comment about me was constructive, as well as those who will be talking about me while I'm gone.

    I suppose it is only natural that I be gradually expunged from places that are slowly turning sedevacantist.