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Friday, October 4, 2013

Sedevacantism Part 4: Saint Augustine Weighs In

I had hoped that by now I might have said a word or two about the recently DVD released Star Trek: Into Darkness.  I really think the director wanted to show the epic scale of the spaceship Enterprise.  It's the best of the two, in my opinion.  Maybe one of the best Star Trek movies, in all honesty.  And that's saying something, because I despise the way that the new movies are centered around an alternate universe.

But instead of discussing such cultural things, I get to shift back to Sedevacantism--the schism of our century.  It is an emotion-laden knee-jerk reaction to a corrupted Catholic Church that needs all the good people She can get to make Her right again.  Without a doubt, the smoke of Satan has filled the ranks of the Catholic Church hierarchy from the bottom, all the way to the top.  And yet, though style changes, the message of Christ has not.

Here are some tasty statements from St. Augustine about schisms such as sedevacantism:

No man ought to sever himself from the unity of the Church before the time of the final separation of the just and the unjust merely because of the admixture of evil men in the Church.  

Another quotation from Augustine helps one grasp why the sede community is so eager to lash its critics with hateful rejection:

[N]one would create schisms, if they were not blinded by hatred of their brethren...Can it be that schism does not involve hatred of one's brethren?  Who will maintain this, when both the origin of and perseverance in schism consists in nothing else save hatred of the brethren?

And here, Augustine discusses the power of the Universal Church's power of unity:

Catholic unity embraces in her motherly breast, bearing each other's burdens by turns and endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, till God should reveal to one or other of them any error in their views... If there was contamination, the Church even then ceased to exist; answer me therefore, whence came ye forth hither?  But if the Church remained, the good are in no wise contaminated by the bad in such communion; answer me therefore, why did ye break the bond?
Here is the analogy of the candlelight:

Would you indeed maintain that while the light of the sun or of a candle, diffused through unclean places, contracts no foulness in itself therefrom, yet the baptism of Christ can be defiled by the sins of any man, whatsoever he may be?
This following quotation is from Augustine's arguments against the Donatists.  While sedevacantism is not exactly Donatism, the followers of the two share the same schismatic spirit:

Since, it is very often a matter of uncertainty what kind of man the baptizer is, the hope ... of the baptized [is] of uncertain origin."

E. Michael Jones, further lays out the implications of what the Donatists were doing:

The consequence of their thinking was a clear devaluation of the sacraments.  The efficacy of the sacraments, according to the Donatists, depended on the moral state of the minister and not on the merits of Jesus Christ.

Jones further explains a bit about the mindset that takes over in a schismatic sect.  He states:

Separation from the unity of the Church becomes, like everything else in the topsy-turvy world of the schismatic, not a grievous sin but an act of highest virtue.

My special thanks goes out to E. Michael Jones for bringing together these quotations from St. Augustine in his article: The Kidnapping of Sister Mary Cecilia.  He pointed me to this article this week in a personal correspondence, and for that I am grateful.  A link to this insightful article can be found here.


  1. hey Laramie Hirsch.
    do me a favour...
    Will you make a thread on cathinfo with a poll asking whether Tcat should be unbanned from cathinfo. Make sure someone posts the results because you cant see poll results unless you are a member.

    I could of course use a proxy and not tell anyone and just make another username, but I would be banned again - and my topic would be deleted.

    someone else has to put it to cathinfo members because if I made it I would be banned and deleted.

    let us hope that God ( Holy and True )
    doth not bann and delete me.


  2. TCat, I sent a message to Matthew on your behalf today. Hang tight. -LH

  3. Thanks Laramie!

    Now as to comment on sedevacantism and saint Augustine...

    I doubt that Saint Augustine could have foreseen such an enormous apostacy ( call it what it is ) from the faith by so many of the Cardinals bishops etc.

    I have but one notion for you to consider, and this regards the Indult.
    Now I preface this meditation by saying that I have gone to the Indult myself, and that is how I have experience of the Latin mass.
    I could not be more impressed with the dignity with which that mass is celebrated, or with the professionalism and academic prowess of the very traditional priests who maintained the church which I went to. The priests were entirely orthodox, but the only stain on them was their need, as forced by their superiors, to present the "pope", who at the time was Benedict, in a good light...

    ..Now you may say that they do no less then their duty as part of the church's ordained class. However, their promotion of the pope and his books, overlook the fact that Benedict made heretical statements, and committed heretical actions.
    The pope was presented to these traditional Catholics who go to the Indult in a good light, and in all things. But not when it comes to the popes, - because what the pope does and continues to do, with this new pope, is to undermine Catholic tradition. Would you agree?

    The faith is in danger unless one says NO to these popes, or at least views the ideas of the pope with scepticism - to protect one's own faith.

    Now my meditation is this:

    What if "Pope(?)" Francis made a statement saying that those who adhere to the Traditional Latin Mass are "Left overs" "a relic of the past" "an obstacle in the face of church reform" "a barrier to the great vision of Vatican 2" ??

    What if he just went ahead and said it like it is?
    He wont care about offending the sensibilities of the strongest Catholics in the church, who are a minority..

    Would the Indult priests accept it?

    The Indult cannot command loyal bishops and cardinals who will defend it - they almost all favour the novus ordo and want to eliminate the TLM and the doctrine that goes with it.

    Would the Indult accept it? What if they enmasse left the Vatican 2 church?
    They would have the numbers, together with SSPX to form a new hierarchy from which a new traditionalist pope would come.

    Meditate on this, and upon the fragility of human loyalties.

    Are the priests who gave their lives to the service of God to continue to serve one who attacks everything they hold dear??